CALL TO ORDER: Lee Speidel, Chairman
MINUTES: Review and discussion of the minutes of Zoning Commission Meeting of October 7th, 2002.
Motion: Don de Reynier made a motion to approve the minutes of October 7th, 2002. John Richardson seconded the motion and the vote was as follows:
Roll Call
John Richardson - yes Robert Giesse - yes
Don de Reynier - yes Scott Evans - yes
The motion was approved. Lee Speidel - yes
CASE 2002-385: John Imbus, 2611 Montgomery Road, near Old Mill, Site Plan Review
Staff Findings: Lee Speidel asked for the staff report. Jenny Kaage came forward. Jenny said there is double frontage on this property, on Montgomery Road and also on Old Mill.
Jenny went over the 10 Staff Findings (attached). She said # 1 is standard on storm water. #2 is standard on interior circulation. The recommendation on #3 is that Old Mill be used only for ingress/egress for emergency purposes. #4 is asking for sidewalks or asphalt paths to be installed along Montgomery Road and Old Mill. #5 is the standard condition regarding erosion and sediment control. #6 is on signs, #7 is regarding the exterior finish, and #8 is the landscaping requirement. #9 regarding parking suggests that only 9 parking spaces shall be required since the buildings are for storage and no onsite business activities shall be permitted. There should not be a need for additional parking. #10 regarding exterior lighting asked that lights be down directional and fixtures shall be screened as not to shine beyond property boundaries.
Tim Hershner said there was a meeting with staff, Doug Miller, the applicant, and their legal counsel. They reviewed the buffer yard requirements. Doug said much of the paved areas are loading spaces and there is no permitted internal parking. The parking lot is separate from the loading area. Tim said the landscape requirement that is shown is for the parking lot, is not required in loading areas. Lee asked about what the code says and Tim said we call it impervious surface. This surface will not be used for parking. Tim said this is different from what we normally deal with. Mr. Miller said these are loading spaces. Lee Speidel said code said for automobile use. Tim said the spirit of the code is to provide landscaping to offset the paved areas. Lee Speidel asked if the board had questions for Tim or the staff. Lee invited the proponent to come forward.
Proponent: John Imbus owner of 2611 Montgomery Road, Loveland, Oh, apologized for missing the last meeting and he said he misunderstood that he should attend the meeting. He distributed some photos of other storage facilities that he owns. He said there was a meeting with Doug Miller and his attorney. The parking issue came up and landscaping around parking lots. Mr. Imbus said it is not a parking lot but a paved area for loading and unloading. Doug Miller said the interior of this is not for parking but for access to buildings. Doug said the state legislature refers to health, safety, and morals. Doug said this is not a PUD and the township requirement on landscaping is an aesthetic requirement. Mr. Imbus said they agreed to put decorative concrete on the front and additional trees and hedges. Lee Speidel asked the board for questions.
Board Questions: John Richardson said at many storage facilities on Saturdays there are shops for car repair and car detail work set up. Mr. Richardson asked if that would be the case. Mr. Imbus said that these are for storage and there will be no sales or services being conducted at his storage facility. John Richardson told him he has seen another one of his properties in Milford and it looks nice. Don de Reynier asked Mr. Imbus to point out the location of the trees on the plan. Mr. Imbus said all the hedges are evergreens. He likes people from outside to be able to see into the facility for safety/security reasons. He said he would put deciduous trees every 30 feet. Scott Evans said he didn’t see any storm water plans. Mr. Imbus said the county has approved his plan on that and referred to the map. Scott Evans asked where the dumpster is located and Mr. Imbus said there is no dumpster. Lee Speidel asked for questions or comments from any opponents or public. There was none. Mr. Speidel closed the public portion.
John Richardson asked about Finding #8 regarding that the zoning inspector shall be notified prior to the removal of any existing on-site trees. John asked if they will try to salvage some perimeter mature trees. Mr. Imbus said they plan to keep them. Tim said we bring that up to remind applicants that is a requirement.
Motion: John Richardson made a motion to approve Case 2002-385 subject to the 10 Staff Findings. Don de Reynier seconded the motion and the vote was as follows:
Roll Call
Don de Reynier - yes Scott Evans - yes
Robert Giesse - yes Lee Speidel - yes
The motion was approved. John Richardson - yes
Tim let the board know this is a Site Plan Review and this case does not have to go before the trustees.
CASE: 2002-727 Anthem, 4361 Irwin-Simpson Road, Revised Preliminary Site Plan Review
Staff Findings: Jenny Kaage gave the Staff Findings. There is a 231,405 square foot 91.5 foot tall, 5-story addition planned at the original site. The addition will connect with the adjoining Phase I office building. They plan for 787 additional parking spaces in the new lot. They plan to enlarge the original lot and add 184 new spaces. Jenny went over the 17 Staff Findings (See attached). Conditions #1-5 are standard conditions. Condition # 7 the FAA and O DOT have been notified the helipad will be eliminated. Condition #10 recommends for sidewalks or asphalt pathways to be installed along Irwin-Simpson Road from Duke Blvd to the eastern border of the property at the expense of the property owner. Condition #11 says signage shall be in compliance but they do not have a signage plan yet. Condition #12 suggests they are allowed to have smaller than code parking spaces which would be 9 x 18 feet. Condition #13 asked applicant to submit a lighting plan. Condition #17 asks applicant for to submit a landscaping plan. Jenny said on October 3rd, Kevin Fehring, our Zoning Inspector, went out to the site and noticed there are several dead mature trees at the site which should be replaced.
Lee Speidel asked the board for questions and there were none at this time. Mr. Speidel asked the proponent to come forward.
Proponent: Jay Smith, Duke Realty, 4555 Lake Forest Dr., Blue Ash, 45242, introduced some others who are involved in the project. He introduced John Baumgardner of Duke Construction, Lynch Chan, from the legal firm representing Anthem, and Wayne Dishman of Anthem. He pointed out the site on the map and a drawing of the proposed building. He pointed out several detention systems planned in order to comply with the Simpson Creek Water Study. The facility is for IT and Customer Service. He pointed out the proposed new parking and the additional parking to be added at the old lot. Jay said they are providing screening with landscaping around the perimeter.
On Condition #3 the traffic impact study, he said they are working with Warren County Engineers on that. Condition #4, storm water management, he said there will be a meeting with Henderson & Bodwell to find out exactly what they are looking for on the Simpson Creek Watershed so the site will be in compliance with that. On Item #7 he said he has the paperwork required and they have notified the FAA. On #10 the sidewalks, Jay said he feels that it is unfair that they happen to be located on Irwin-Simpson Road and would be expected to install sidewalks. Jay said he would prefer a 6 foot asphalt path if they have to do that. On Lighting, #13 Jay said they will comply.
On #17, Jay asked the staff to review the Landscaping and Buffering plan that has been submitted. Tim said Anthem has done a good job on the first building. The plan as it sits, exceeds the requirements. Lee Speidel asked about the perimeter landscaping, and if it complies and Tim said it does. Tim said we are trying to make sure they are replacing dead plants.
Tim said the staff is trying to raise the standard in the township with the sidewalk requirement. Tim said he acknowledges Mr. Smith’s concern. We could have a district wide push and hopefully we could get a sidewalk program in place. Tim mentioned the Miami to Miami Bike Trail and said since Kingswood Golf Course has not been developed the sidewalk could go at least to that. The bike path could run along Irwin-Simpson to the golf course and then turn across to Innovation Way. Jay said Irwin-Simpson and Duke Drive intersection has never been set up for pedestrians crossing there. John Richardson asked if there are any sidewalks near by and they said there are some on Duke Drive going toward Socialville-Fosters Road. Mr. Speidel asked why the building is 91.5 feet tall. Lee said that seems so high for 5 stories. Jay said the penthouse area on top is for housing the mechanicals. Tim spoke of the grade change from the road to parking lot. Tim said if it was graded a certain way, it would make it easier to install a pathway at a later time.
Tim asked Jay to show where the driveway access is to the Harris property on the north side. Jay pointed that out and Jay said the Warren County Engineers looked at that and asked him to shift the driveway over a couple feet just in case a future road, Innovation Way extension, would come through there. Lee asked if the proposed Innovation Way is coming through the golf course. Jay said it is subject to the owner of the golf course. Lee asked the board if there were questions for Tim or Jay Smith and there weren’t. Lee asked any public who wanted to comment to come forward.
Public Comments: Bob Styers, 3795 Irwin-Simpson Road, asked Jay Smith where the loading area would be. Jay pointed that out on the plan. Mr. Styers asked about signage. Jay said they haven’t submitted a sign plan yet. Mr. Styers asked for Jay to point out on the map the detention areas. Lee asked Mr. Styers opinion of a sidewalk. Mr. Styers said their (Anthem’s) employees are the ones who jog down the road and would use it. Lee closed the public comment portion of the meeting and asked for board comments.
Board Comments: Don de Reynier asked Tim about the sidewalks. Tim said our standard is a 4 foot wide concrete sidewalk or 6 foot wide asphalt path. Tim said the Miami to Miami path is 10 foot wide asphalt path. John Richardson asked if it comes through our area. Tim said it comes right to Duke Drive and turns north. Tim said that is a generalized location. It was approved as part of the town center on the north side of the town center. Lee said he thinks it is quite impractical to extend it eastward on Irwin-Simpson with the bridge. Lee said he sees no need to make that a requirement in front of this property. Tim said to him the question is to make a condition that they implement any pathway at time of construction or at time or when a pathway or adjacent sidewalks come into play. Tim said it is clear that people are using the road. Lee said he knows they are using that road to jog. That is why he asked Bob Styers his opinion, because he lives on Irwin-Simpson Road.
Motion: Don de Reynier made a motion to approve Case #2002-751 including the 17 Staff
Findings, and adding to #10, “a 6 foot asphalt path shall be installed.” Robert Giess seconded the motion and the vote was as follows:
Roll Call
Robert Giesse - yes
Scott Evans - yes
Lee Speidel - yes
John Richardson - yes
Don de Reynier - yes
The motion was approved.
CASE: 2002-727 20 Mile Green, 3277 Montgomery Road, Stage 1 Rezoning
Staff Findings: Jenny Kaage said the proponent is asking to rezone the 9.6739 acre site from General Business PUD to Residential Multi-Family PUD. They are proposing 80
3-story townhouse condos with two car garages on 7.01 acres of the 9.6739 site. There is 2.18 acres of open/green space on the site. They are proposing a 30 foot wide private drive. Jenny said the Land Use Plan recommends the site be General Business. The two front parcels owned by the same person will not be in the development and will remain zoned GB PUD.
Jenny went over the 17 Conditions. There are buffers planned for the east and south property lines, either a double row 6 foot hedge or a 6 foot wall.
Jenny said she has received a letter from Michael Rief, 3176, Myrtle Avenue, and he was concerned about drainage on lots 8, 9, 11, 69, 70. He also was concerned about the lighting from this development and he asked for a 50 foot buffer. He said he was concerned about the height of the buildings.
Lee said there is no applicant in attendance at this meeting. Lee asked Jenny if the case had been properly advertised and residents were contacted. Jenny said yes.
George Demas, owner of this property, came forward and said his sister is part owner also. He said he couldn’t understand why the developer did not realize he should be here but he asked if this hearing could be rescheduled. Mr. Demas said Mr. Hershner could address some of the questions. Tim said they will try to stay with their regular schedule and not have special meeting. Tim said the board should listen to the residents tonight. Doug Miller said he has represented Mr. Demas in the past but is not at this time. Lee Speidel asked Mr. Tranor to come and speak.
Richard Tranor, 3878 Townsley Drive, said we don’t need more development and there is too much traffic. He said he thinks developers should pay impact fees because the developers come in here and make money then they leave.
David Orr, 3299 Myrtle Avenue, said the drainage will be a problem. There is nothing to drain to. He said there is so much commercial development and apartments in less than a square mile.
Karen Farley, 3120 Columbia Road, said she can’t get out of her driveway now. There is too much development and too many cars. She said we can’t take care of the traffic we have now.
Linda Macke, 3326 Myrtle Avenue, said there is too much traffic. She said there is too much cut through traffic. She said since the developer didn’t show up, that concerns her.
Carl Bitter, 9277 Winding Lane, said development is too dense and traffic is a problem. He said the creek has flooded neighbors before. He said they don’t need more blacktop to drain to the creek. He said the creek can’t be made any bigger. He doesn’t like the concrete island on Montgomery Road. He was concerned about lights shining on his house like Tractor Supply.
Pam Royce, 3140 Myrtle Avenue, was concerned about more children in the schools and more cars. She said we need parks with concerts. She said this township has “no class” and she wished she had moved to Blue Ash.
Pat Shumaker, 3159 Myrtle Avenue, said traffic is terrible and she agreed with what the previous people said.
Linda Macke, 3326 Myrtle Avenue, said she received paper work from the neighbor not the township. Lee told her that the township mailed to persons within 300 feet of the proposed development. There was talking back and forth among the audience and Jenny Kaage let them see the mailing list of persons that the township notified of this meeting.
Mr. Tranor was talking again and Mr. Speidel invited him to go to the microphone.
Richard Tranor, 3878 Townsley Drive, said there was talk a while ago several about storm water problems and that he and his neighbors paid years ago for storm water relief and said he doesn’t want to pay again. He talked about the development behind him.
Don de Reynier asked Mr. Speidel if what Mr. Tranor is talking about pertains to this case. Mr. Speidel asked Mr. Tranor what point he is talking about.
Richard Tranor, 3878 Townsley Drive, said maybe he should get a lawyer to represent him with his problems.
Lee asked Tim if he was involved with the Tractor Supply case and Tim said that was before he came. There was a lot of talking between persons in the audience and Lee asked them to not talk until they are asked.
Lee explained the storm water problems with the Tractor Supply and Smyth cases and the situation with storm water problems by the Farley’s property. Karen Farley, 3120 Columbia Road, said she is concerned about more storm water coming and said she did not get notified of this meeting. Jenny took the label list and showed it to persons in the audience. Jenny saw Mrs. Farley’s name on the label list but she said she did not receive notification. Lee told Tim he should work closely with these neighbors and what happened with the Tractor Supply and Smyth storm water problems. That situation could be avoided this time. George Demas, owner, said this developer is a reputable developer and the developer would work to solve these problems. Lee said Tim should make sure he works with the developer on this. Lee said the developer may have to make changes to this plan, realign roads, move detention, etc. to correct these issues.
Karen Farley, 3120 Columbia Road, said she has been approached twice and asked to give permission to put an 18 inch pipe across her property to alleviate storm water problems. She said she knows an 18 inch pipe would be inadequate. She said they would then expect her to maintain it. She said there is so much water it comes up over Columbia Road. Lee asked Tim to talk with the Farley’s as well as the developer. Lee asked Mrs. Macke if she has another comment. Linda Macke, 3326 Myrtle Avenue, asked is she should do another petition. She said she doesn’t like developers coming in here and making lots of money. She said the DTFR is just not getting on their feet from the split with Mason. She said there is a place for someone saying “no” to more development.
Don de Reynier said the questions Mrs. Macke raises are meant for the trustees. He said this board can only go by what the conditions say will be done. This board goes by what information we have before us. If it isn’t done properly, we can’t police that. Linda Macke, 3326 Myrtle Avenue, said the first step in the “no” process is you. Scott Evans said “by law” we can’t say “no.” Linda Macke, 3326 Myrtle Avenue , said “not even for rezoning?” Doug Miller said the water and the traffic is not going to be resolved here. Doug Miller said you cannot deny a property owner his opportunity to develop his property. The Supreme Court has ruled that way.
Linda Macke, 3326 Myrtle Avenue, said what about her property, if you take her property and “devalue it.” Does her property value not mean anything? Doug says there are many court cases regarding these issues. Doug said he understands what she is saying. Linda Macke, 3326 Myrtle Avenue, says she is not saying “no” to everything, but not that high, not that big, etc. John Richardson said we have Mrs. Macke’s comments. Doug Miller suggested the residents put their thoughts on paper and have those comments given to the board. Lee asked, “Do we want it to be G-B or do we want it to be R-MF?” George Demas said he is unmercifully being picked on as “low man on the totem pole.” He said they have lost 2 acres to green belt on this project to comply with requirements. Those 2 acres are worth $500,000-$600,000. Mr. Demas said he is currently paying $17,000 per year in taxes. Lee said there is no point in arguing in how much they have paid, and how much they have given up. Scott Evans quoted the WCRPC, stating that concerning development along 22 & 3, that the retail development is close to saturation.
Mrs. Bitter, 9277 Winding Lane, said the DT Land Use Plan recommends this to be General Business. Lee explained that the Land Use Plan is a guide and on the township plan that is shown for business use.
Richard Tranor, 3878 Townsley Drive, said, “I am sorry to say our trustees seemed to be owned by the builders.” He asked who is paying for this campaign for “3 is enough.” He said he understood that it is being paid for by “builders.” He said that is why we are having this problem and don’t seem to be getting anywhere. Mr. Tranor asked if this is true or not. Doug Miller said this is irrevelent. Lee said the board will not allow you to address this. Lee said there are plenty of other venues to address that. Lee asked if anyone has any questions or recommendations for the staff to take action before the next meeting to take action on this. Scott Evans asked if all of these got mailed. Scott said Mrs. Farley’s name is on the list. Jenny explained that the applicant supplied names within 200 feet of the proposal and later she sent more to include the area within 300 feet. There was discussion on the mail process. Scott said this complaint has come to this board before.
Don de Reynier asked about a study to determine how much development we have on housing such as, R-SF, R-MF (Condo), Apartments etc. John Richardson asked if the condos are separated from the apartments in the totals. Tim said they are. Doug Miller said there are some court cases which say you can limit multi-family. Doug said that is why we need this study. This way the trustee would have something to go by. Lee Speidel asked the board if they had more questions for Tim. Scott Evans asked what is the definition of a condo? Tim said it is defined in our study that it is of public record at the county.
Lee Speidel told Mrs. Macke to go ahead.
Linda Macke, 3326 Myrtle Avenue, asked if there were any restrictions on density in the township. Lee said the code provides limits on density in the different districts. Lee told her to check with Tim and he could explain that to her.
Motion: Lee Speidel made a motion to continue the Demas Case (#2002-727) until the 9th
of December, 2002, at 7:00 PM. Scott Evans seconded the motion and the vote
was as follows:
Roll Call
Scott Evans - yes
Lee Speidel - yes
John Richardson - yes
Don de Reynier - yes
Robert Giesse - yes
The motion was approved.
Lee Speidel said that Don de Reynier had some suggestions on how to conduct meetings that he e-mailed to Tim. Don said his main comment from the last meeting was that we should develop guidelines for giving testimony. Don said if we had something like this we wouldn’t have to worry about the timing. Don thinks the guidelines for testimony should be read at each meeting. John Richardson said they take their turn for speaking after they have signed in. They should comment one time. There is too much chatter going on. John thinks the sign in sheet should have a “for” and “against” list. John said when Lee calls for proponents they should have their name on the list. Don de Reynier said the list would not cover any unexpected, unplanned testimony. Lee said sometimes when people sign in they think they must speak. Tim said when they sign in we get their name, address, and whether they are for, against, or undecided. Doug said anyone who wants to speak should fill out a card. On person isn’t going to add anything that 2 people already
said. John Richardson said things are said that are not pertaining to the case. Doug Miller said as long at it is relevant, he doesn’t mind listening but so many times testimony is repetitious. Robert Giesse said we should start the meetings with the guidelines that should help. John Richardson said they should talk at the podium but not sit in the audience and talk back and forth. Don de Reynier said the guidelines should be read before each case or at least at the beginning of each meeting. Don said any Commission member, may ask the Chairman to cut short any testimony that doesn’t conform to the “Guidelines for giving testimony.”
Lee said this should be allowed at any time.
Doug Miller said we should first listen to the applicant, then any adjoining property owners, then any interested person. Doug said that there are appeals of decisions made by this board or the trustees to the Common Pleas Court. Any case which this board is making the final decision, like the store and lock case tonight., the persons who are giving testimony should be sworn in. This must be done to “bind the court to your decision.” The judge needs the right procedure to allow your testimony. #1 everyone giving testimony should be under oath. #2 have a record. #3 have a “findings of fact” in writing.
Doug said trying to enforce landscaping rules when the law says we should deal with that which affects health, safety, and morals. How does landscaping affect that? Lee said there are many townships with elaborate landscaping rules. If it is a situation where this board is making the final decision, they must be sworn in. Lee Speidel said we have had only 2 or 3 straight zoning cases in the last 3 years. Doug said the trustees can only over rule this board with a unanimous decision.
ADJOURNMENT Lee Speidel made a motion to adjourn. Scott Evans seconded the meeting and the vote was as follows:
Roll call
Lee Speidel - yes
John Richardson - yes
Don de Reynier - yes
Robert Giesse - yes
Scott Evans - yes
The motion was approved and the meeting was adjourned at 8:30 PM.