Minutes
CALL TO ORDER: John Richardson, Chairman
MINUTES: Minutes DT Zoning Commission September 8, 2003
Roll Call Don de Reynier-yes, S. Evans-yes, L. Speidel-yes, J. Richardson-yes, R. Giesse-yes
The motion was approved.
Zoning Code Update – Randy Mielnik, Poggemeyer Design Group
Randy Mielnik had an agenda of 7 items to be discussed tonight.
1). Sexually Oriented Businesses - He said earlier they discussed handling this type of business as a Conditional Use. That way the zoning can better control this legally. He said they are in the process of changing the land use separation rules. There should be separation from and protection from these types of businesses for schools, churches, parks, libraries, public facilities, whereby, these businesses (SOB) could not be located within a certain distance. We should include live performance separation regulations whereby the facility must make the facility stage area or designated performance area elevated and a certain distance and/or divided by a railing or barrier from the patrons. There is some planning for secondary affects from these types of business. John Richardson asked about the separation requirement if that verbage works for other communities. Mr. Mielnik said there is one court case going on at this time in the City of Cleveland but it is not resolved at this time. Mr. Mielnik said that he wanted the board to be aware of this and that this is something to be concerned about.
2). Outside Storage – Randy Mielnik said this is regarding junk vehicles, and where it is permitted and where it is not permitted, disposal, etc. Don de Reynier said on D 1. b, in this context what does the word “required” mean? Mr. Mielnik said that is referring to required setbacks. Mayank Kumar said that refers to buffer yards also. Mr. de Reynier said that should be clarified. Mr. de Reynier had a question on Page 6 D, ”Outdoor storage areas shall be required to be fully screened,” pursuant to Section 21.26. Mr. de Reynier asked if this would apply also to stacks of mulch in outdoor parking areas. Mr. Mielnik said that can get out of hand and stacks can be be 10-12 feet in the air. Mr. de Reynier said it should be addressed whether it is permanent or temporary. Mr. Richardson said it was determined that Biggs had too much mulch stacked in the parking lot and we asked them to cut back and be limited to a certain time period maybe this would be allowed. Mr. Richardson said the stacking also occurs at gas stations and other places, too. Mr. de Reynier there was a distinction at that time between whether it is seasonal or year round. John Richardson said the difficult part is having the Zoning Inspector have to go out and enforce those rules. Matt Evans that is no different from stock in the store. It is meant for you look at and purchase at that site. Scott Evans said Biggs kept the stock in the back and would bring certain amounts at a time out to the parking lot for sale.
3). Landscaping and Screening – Mr. Mielnik said Page 19 adds detail to the buffering. They are defined 3 different ways, B-1, B-2, and B-3 with specific standards for each one. For example B-1 buffer yard is distance with ground type landscaping. B-2 would be a combination of distance and low level plant material such as bushes. B-3 achieves the full visual separation. When you have different types of zoning next to each other you would need visual separation.
They added with larger developments of 55,000 square feet or larger, that the code require that landscape architects be used. That is on Page 2. Matt Evans asked if the 55,000 square feet is the building, more than one floor, or includes the land. Mr. Mielnik said that would be all floors and would not include any land, just the building. John Richardson said the acreage might be a better way to judge. Mr. Mielnik said in other areas he has seen it as low as 10,000 square feet and as high as 75,000 square feet. Don de Reynier said it could be a combination of building size and acreage. Mr. Mielnik on the landscaping of parking lots on some codes suggest certain percentage of the lot be shaded. Don de Reynier said on Page 4 the wording needs to be changed from city to township. Mr. de Reynier said on Page 8 with the types of plants listed he suggested that White Pines be removed from the list of suggested plants. On Page 19, the matrix, the first column heading Mr. de Reynier said the word, “benefit” needs attention. Mr. Mielnik said it should be realigned. It is a typing error. Mr. de Reynier said on the same page, the matrix (has “s” a principle use should be “as”). Page 21.08A 2, “Outside Storage as an accessory use shall be screened.” Mr. de Reynier said this is getting at the same thing we were discussing earlier. Mr. de Reynier said the last sentence is not a complete sentence. Lee Speidel said the language on this is pretty clear and sufficient as far as desiring that all outdoor storage shall be screened if it is outside more than 4 consecutive days. He said that would cover practically all merchandise. We need to consider if we want to eliminate all merchandise from the parking lot. Mr. Speidel said the way they put it in the parking lot there is no way they could screen it. Mr. Speidel said they will have to designate what part of their property that they want for outside storage and selling. Mr. de Reynier said at Lowe’s they have a permanent chain link fence. He said but that is not screened. Mr. Mielnik said this is a common problem everywhere. John Richardson said we need to define what is “screened.” Matt Evans said that on Page 22, that screening be required, and outdoor storage is defined once again.
Mr. Evans said we shouldn’t have it defined here when it is already defined in our chapter under storage. He said this portion should be changed also to reflect the change. Mayank said it is defined under the B-1, B-2, and B-3 and it explains what level of screening is achieved. John Richardson said B-1, B-2, and B-3 all deal with landscaping. Mr. Meilnik said we need to deal with what type of screening and get it better defined what level of landscaping and come up with something that will serve the purpose of blocking the view of some of that material. Doug Miller said should we look at outdoor storage as an accessory use. He said it is all outdoor storage but where in the code does it say you can or can’t have outside storage. Mr. Miller said we don’t allow it as an accessory use because we don’t allow it as a permitted use. Mr. Miller said how is someone permitted to have outside storage anyway. Scott Evans said it is really outside sales. Mr. Miller said outside storage needs to be with some type of approval. Scott Evans said gas stations have mulch and salt. Mr. Meilnik said the enforcement of that is a difficult. John Richardson said the zoning inspector needs to be involved. Mr. Miller said if you must have board approval to have outside storage allowed but you can’t expect them to spend $5,000 to screen something that may only be there for short time. Lee Speidel suggested there be certain rules regarding outside storage in certain districts. Matt Evans develop sections that define this, as outdoor retail sales and sales storage outside. Mr. Evans said the issue is when they want to sell something outdoors. Lee Speidel said we have some of these specifics in the PUD’s but they all have exceeded the rules. Doug Miller said the “temporary” becomes “permanent” with this outdoor sales and storage. Matt Evans asked if there are any issues with outside dining areas? Mr. Meilnik said the main concern about the outside dining he has heard was for adequate parking.
Mayank mentioned shading the parking areas and said shrubs were left off from the list of required plants. Mr. Meilnik said on Page 20 #2 in the center of the page mentions shrubs. John Richardson said shrubs are not taken into consideration with the shading portion in paragraph 3, for parking areas over 50 spaces. Mr. Richardson asked if shrubs count toward shading requirements. John Richardson asked for any public comments.
Public Comments James Noyes, Ohio Valley Development Council, Classic Properties,
1181 Mason-Montgomery Road, Cinti., OH, 45240, said he is affiliated with the Cincinnati Home Builders Association. He said he is very interested in the process the township is going through and would like to get involved with the consultant, the staff, and the zoning board. John Richardson told him his comments are very welcome and told him to put the comments in writing and give it to Tim Hershner.
Patrick Knoll, Ohio Valley Development Council, 10073 Bennington Drive Cinti, OH 45242, said he works for a geotechnical engineering firm. He said they do a lot of residential work. Mr. Knoll said there are some events in the township where water has caused some problems on slopes. He said that development on slopes can be done very successfully. Mr. Knoll said in Hamilton County there are many landslide prone areas. Mr. Knoll said that if consultants are involved the developments can proceed. He suggested rather than prohibiting development on these slopes, the development on slopes could be allowed with consultation and sloped areas could be developed. Mr. Knoll said on storm water management the county’s expertise should be considered. John Richardson asked him also to put this in writing to Tim Hershner. Lee Speidel told Mr. Knoll that they should submit to Tim any code’s from other communities, or professional studies that the board could view regarding steep slopes. Mr. Speidel said knowing how other communities handle this would be a help.
John Lateulere, Fischer Development, 2670 Chancelor Drive, Crestview
Hills, KY 41017, said he sent a letter to Tim Hershner last week. He distributed it to the board. He said the township has gone from a very un- descriptive zoning code to an extremely descriptive. He said particularly the open space requirement of 50% open space. He said the methods which are used to calculate density are far too complicated. He asked the Zoning Commission to “re-look” at that method. He was also concerned about the locational criteria requirement that developments be built on major arteries. He said the Stage 1 Plan goes through the whole process. He encouraged board to consider allowing the Stage 2 and Stage 3 process be done by the staff. That way they could work through the process. He mentioned cultural resources and priority items such as barn foundations and fruit cellars. He said some of these things become liabilities. He asked the Zoning Commission to go back and evaluate. He also asked if they could sit down and get involved with the code. John Richardson asked him to put this in writing and give it to Tim.
Diana Hallegin, 4071 Brookside Court, Mason, OH 45040, asked the board to not leave out the residents during these discussions.
Randy Mielnik, Poggemeyer Design Group, said we have already covered steep slopes and the involvement of a geotechnical consultant. He said we also discussed the PUD’s and open space. He said they are certainly trying to streamline the process allowing for and including the public but not creating unnecessary delays. Lee Speidel asked Randy if they could have a much larger list of trees native trees included in the code.
Don de Reynier said on the steep slopes, that was Item c in the steep slopes section. Mr. de Reynier said If we are going to highlight steep slope regulations, he thinks we should certainly have steep slopes become a part of storm water management.
Mr. Mielnik said there are EPA requirements. Mayank said does the township have the capacity to do this type of storm water management. Mayank said it takes a lot of technical work to deal with water run off. Robert Giesse said we should meet the recommendations of the Simpson Creek Water Study.
4). Performance Requirements Mr. Mielnik said there are needs to add more details to the section on outside impact such as noise, vibration, fumes, light spill over and this is an effort to add sensitivity to the code. Mayank said on the noise problem is there a way noise could be controlled like we control the footcandles of the lights. Mr. Mielnik said he didn’t know how that could be controlled. Doug Miller said the township has a noise resolution but it is difficult to enforce. Mr. Miller said unless you put on there, specific levels of (noise) decimals, it could not be enforced.
5). Highway Corridor Overlay District Mr. Mielnik said this involves road changes, widening, etc. This would help up to set up a district and make it so changes could be added. Lee Speidel said there was an overlay on the Miller PUD and said it covers about 20% of Montgomery Road. Mr. Mielnik said frame work could be put in so later things could be added. Lee Speidel asked Mr. Mielnik if later on it could be tailored to either Montgomery Road or Mason-Montgomery Road. Mr. Mielnik said even though those roads may become “built out,” changes will occur along those areas. Matt Evans said on Page 4, 20.11 c, with design relating to surrounding buildings, he would like to see setbacks incorporated into this also. Mr. Mielnik said the right of way may change when they widen the road.
6). Kings Mills Heritage District & Loveland Park Heritage District Mr. Mielnik said there would be two different districts. In Kings Mills and Loveland Park the requirement could be to have the lot size not exceed more than a certain amount at this time. The two areas could evolve over time but Loveland Park would be more of a challenge because of the many lot sizes. Matt Evans said under the residential architectural design standards you get into discussion of the character and image of the structure. Mr. Evans said he didn’t think you should go into any more than this. He said we could require window treatments and those type of details but he said that would be too restrictive. Mr. Mielnik said that any changes should be done with neighborhood / public involvement. John Richardson asked for any public comments.
Public Comments Dianna Hallegin, 4071 Brookside Court, Maineville, OH 45039, suggested a minimum open space requirement. She showed a plan from Franklin, Massachusetts. She also suggested a size limit on buildings. She found a watershed protection section and said she would like this to be incorporated into our plan. She had and example of forms we should use showing impervious surfaces and methods of calculatingrun-off. She said impact fees would help pay for these types of controls for storm water. She asked the board for questions or comments. There were none. John Richardson asked for any other public to come forward.
Robb Olsen, Charleston Woods Drive, Mason, OH 45040, said 100 people from his neighborhood came to a meeting for their neighborhood hosted by Larry Weis to explain the Towne Center and the impact on their neighborhood. Mr. Olsen distributed some paperwork with some of the goals suggested by his community. Mr. Olsen said his neighbors care passionately about the remaining 25% of undeveloped areas in Deerfield Township. He asked that every development have a “positive” influence on the community. He asked for a revised land use plan. He asked for his neighborhood to be connected to parks in the township by bike trails and sidewalks. Mr. Olsen said in his neighborhood he has circulated a form to get signatures of approval for the suggested improvements for their neighborhood. He said he plans to circulate the same form in other neighborhoods in the township. Mr. Olsen thanked the board for their attention. John Richardson thanked Mr. Olsen for his input.
OLD BUSINESS
Motion Lee Speidel made a motion to continue the map amendment to the next regularly scheduled meeting of 11/10/03. There was a second by Scott Evans. Roll Call Don de Reynier-yes, S. Evans-yes, L. Speidel-yes, J. Richardson-yes, R. Giesse-yes The motion was approved.
NEW BUSINESS Mayank Kumar said a letter to the editor was sent to the Pulse Journal welcoming the community to get involved in the planning and development of the proposed Walmart in Deerfield Township. Scott Evans said that will be at the Warren County Regional Planning Commission, 10/23/03. Tim said the case will be on the agenda November 10th.Doug Miller said since the Walmart case will take a lot of time, will we have time for Poggemeyer. Scott Evans asked what else would be on the agenda. Tim said the other cases would be #1 Bowen Farm south where Walmart is proposing, #2 North of Bowen an office development but they want retail, and #3 Agglamesis property apartments are planned for the last of the Miller PUD. Randy Mielnik said he is getting close to draft version of the zoning code but he must meet with the staff again and get their changes. The board decided to have Randy Mielnik, Poggemeyer Design Group, to come back for the meeting of 12/8/03.
9:30 PM ADJOURNMENT
Motion by Don de Reynier to adjourn. There was a 2nd by Scott Evans.
Roll Call S. Evans-yes, L. Speidel-yes, J. Richardson-yes, R. Giesse-yes,
Don de Reynier-yes
John Richardson Date Marilyn Arnold Date