MINUTES
CALL TO ORDER: John Richardson, Chairman
John Rickert were present. Robert Giesse was absent. Also present was
Township Attorney Doug Miller.
CASE 2004-296 Towne Properties, 22.0 Acres Zone
John Richardson said we have a continued case which is Towne Properties requested zoning change. He asked Mayank Kumar if he is going to review the conditions and Mr. Kumar said yes. Mr. Kumar said there are 2 sets of conditions, some revised conditions from the staff and some from the applicant. There was discussion on which one to review. John Richardson said they will review the staff’s conditions from Mr. Kumar and the Mr. Paolo can add his suggestions.
Condition #1, Doug Miller said you changed “Site” Plan to “Sketch” Plan. Mayank said according to our zoning code it should be “Sketch” Plan. In the first line “property” should be capitalized.
The agreed upon conditions were as follows:
Storm Water Management System. Any changes to approved plan shall require Deerfield Township Trustee
approval.
A. The existing non-conforming sign at the southwest corner of the site may be continued in existence until such time as the sign is repaired, replaced or refaced. At that time one sign shall be permitted at the southwest corner of Site which shall be thirty-five (35) square feet for each face with no more than two (2) sides. The maximum height shall not exceed seven (7) feet. The sign shall be generally located on the Site measured fifteen (15) feet off the right-of-way (ROW) of Columbia Road. All future designs and approval for modification or reconstruction of the sign shall require approval from Deerfield Township
B. The existing billboard advertising, The Falls Apartments shall be removed. Applicant shall have the right to erect 1 sign, one for The Falls Apartments on the site. The size and design of which shall be determined at the
Stage 2 review.
C. The sign located as part of the entrance monumentation for the Site shall be as show on the site plans on
Page L-5.
Final Detailed Plan, in accordance with Section 19.07 Deerfield Township Zoning Resolution.
Motion There was a motion by Matt Evans to approve Case 2004-496, with 17 Conditions.
There was a 2nd by John Rickert.
Roll Call Matt Evans-Yes, Don de Reynier-Yes, John Rickert-Yes, Scott Evans-Yes, John Richardson-Yes. The motion was approved.
Tim Hershner asked the board if they will take the last case under New Business and discuss that now.
There was a motion by John Richardson to change the order of the meeting and take the New Business, the Miller PUD case next. There was a 2nd by Matt Evans.
Roll Call Matt Evans-Yes, Scott Evans-Yes, John Richardson-Yes, Don de Reynier-Yes,
John Rickert-Yes The motion was approved.
Initiate Stage 1 Modification for Miller PUD
Mayank Kumar said staff suggests the Zoning Commission initiate a PUD modification and we will send this to the Warren County Regional Planning Commission. Mr. Kumar had a copy of the Stage 1 Sketch Plan. The different land uses are included. Mr. Kumar said it is like a zone change process. John Richardson said we are not hearing public comment tonight but we have someone who wants to talk on the Miller PUD tonight. Tim Hershner said the Zoning Code Update and all those meetings to date are general meetings, not public hearings. Tim said it is up to the board if we want to hear the people tonight. Mr. Kumar said the Resolution for the Miller PUD had a condition which suggested 25% R-SF. John Richardson said since we have some people who want to speak on the Miller PUD, we will do to that.
June Graving, 3636 W. Montgomery Road, said she has lived here 42 years. Mr. Hershner pointed out her parcel on the map. She said she had offers on her property 2 times before, in 1981 and 1992 but she was unable to sell both times. At this time she wants to sell her property to Paul Gramas. Ms. Graving said she has seen a $4000 increase on the taxes on the property and she went to the Warren County Auditor’s Office to see why her taxes were so high. She said the auditor told her the taxes were so high due to a commercial PUD. John Richardson says it looks like her portion of the Miller PUD should be office. Tim showed 3 suggested uses for the Miller PUD showing some portions as R-SF, R-MF, Commercial, Office, etc. Mayank said this property is shown as office on some plans. Ms. Graving said she and her neighbors would like retail because she believes retail would sell better. Tim said they are concerned about the marketability of the properties. John Rickert asked her why she has had trouble marketing her property. Ms. Graving said she didn’t know her zoning. Mayank told her the zoning of her property is R-MF. Doug Miller said he believes any multifamily of more than 4 units is considered commercial. Scott Evans asked her if she had a vender’s license for Beany Babies. Ms. Graving said she had a vendor’s license for Trader’s World but some Beanies were sold from the front of her property. Scott Evans said maybe that is how she ended up with a commercial designation at the Warren County Auditor’s Office. John Richardson asked Tim if the property owners which have not developed at this point, met with him yet? Tim said no.
Joe Diss, 2314 Old Mill Road, Maineville, OH, said one of the plans which Tim referred to and showed was the Bird Hauck Plan but that plan was never officially adopted. Mr. Diss referred to the Warren County Commissioner’s sketch plan from 1993 which is the original plan but there is a proposed plan which the township has modified. Mr. Diss said that office designation was not on the original plan. Mr. Diss distributed some maps showing aerial photos of Ms. Graving’s property and the surrounding properties and the dimensions. He explained the drawing. He said Ms. Graving’s home is exactly 20 feet from the road after they widen it. Mr. Diss said Paul Gramus has a wonderful plan for Ms. Graving’s property and her neighbors. He said Mr. Gramus plans a retail center and office complex. Mr. Diss said Mr. Gramus does quality developments. He has a development in Symmes Township. Mr. Diss said there is a nice buffer requirement in the PUD for Heritage Green. He said Mr. Gramus would look at the 50 feet buffer and see what could put there. He said they plan a linear park like the one at Nantucket which would go around the side and back. The retail center would be double sided and the back would look as good as the front. The park would be between the retail area and the office area.
Don de Reynier asked if we gain anything by going ahead with the Stage 1 modification now or should we wait and see the plan. Mr. Diss said he would like retail / office there. Mayank said we don’t have to do the modification. Mr. Diss said why do you have to have a formal zone change. Doug Miller said there are conditions in the original 1993 Resolution from the WC Commissioners which won’t work for the rest of the PUD. Doug said the 25% R-SF requirement may end up on the last parcel to develop. Doug said something doesn’t have to happen tonight. We could look at their plan. Doug said even if the board likes this plan, if it doesn’t agree with the original 1993 conditions, we can’t do this. Doug said that is why the Zoning Commission needs to “clean this up.” There was discussion on mixed use. Tim said under the Bird Hauch plan, the Aglamesis property was suggested to have a mixed use of commercial and office on the front end. Tim suggested the Zoning Commission consider this development of Mr. Gramus, at the regular meeting of June 14th. Doug said if this land must be residential and the plan is not, you can’t approve it. That is the reason we want to “clean this up.” Joe Diss said the mixed use sounds good to him. Doug Miller said he is leary of a blanket designation of mixed use due to recent history. John Richardson asked the board if they had any questions for Mr. Diss. There were none. He asked for others who want to speak.
Paul Gramus, Gramus Developing, said he is under contract with Mrs. Graving and he is working with the other nearby property owners, Mullins, Barron, and Dye. Mr. Gramus said at the next meeting he would like to come in with a plan. John Richardson told him he must apply and have a sketch plan of his intentions. That would be helpful.
Lee Speidel said he has talked too many years about the Miller PUD. Scott Evans asked Mr. Diss about paragraph 8 referring to a 50 foot buffer and leaving remaining trees. Mr. Diss said he is very aware of that condition. Tim said on the Barron and Dye property there are many mature trees. Tim said there is an older wooded area between Nantucket and Heritage Green. He said that is an older wooded area which has not been maintained. He said the Mullins property has trees along the fence line but not out in the field area. Scott Evans asked about paragraph 9 in the Miller PUD Resolution which says, “In order to insure some element of low density housing is built there will be….” Scott asked if “will” means the same as “shall.” Doug Miller said it means the same. Joe Diss said on the Barron and Dye property, they are not here tonight, but both properties have heavy woods and he doesn’t know how much would have to be removed. Tim said staff is comfortable with this case being tabled tonight.
Motion There was a motion by Scott Evans to table the Miller PUD case. There was a 2nd by Matt Evans.
Roll Call Don de Reynier-Yes, John Rickert-Yes, Scott Evans-Yes, John Richardson-
Yes, Matt Evans-Yes The motion was approved.
There was a motion by John Richardson to take a 5 minute break. The motion was approved. At this time 9:26 PM, since he had resigned, John Rickert left the meeting.
There was a motion by John Richardson to re-adjourn. The motion was approved.
Zoning Code Update
Diana Hallagin, Brookside Court, distributed a booklet (Water Quality Protection) which was storm water requirements for developments and sites, from Mecklenberg County, North Carolina, which she was able to print from the EPA website. She projected some information on the wall. Matt Evans asked where this is covered in our zoning code. Tim said this is not in our zoning code and the challenge is that we the staff, don’t have the expertise to monitor water quality. Tim said the Warren County Soil & Water District or the Warren County Engineer would be the agencies which would make recommendations to us. John Richardson asked if the county must police this. Doug Miller said the county is only going to police what they require. Doug said he didn’t know if “we are overstepping into someone else’s jurisdiction” or not. Doug said we refer to Henderson & Bodwell regarding the Simpson Creek Watershed. Ms. Halligan discussed pervious and impervious surfaces. She suggested that at the sketch plan level, Stage 1,that soil conditions of the site should be presented as to the projected run-off and saturation levels from storm water. Matt Evans asked if this method of monitoring storm water plans, tells if the plan “passes or fails?” Ms Halligan said yes. Matt Evans asked her if other communities around her do this. Ms. Halligan said no one around here does this. Doug Miller asked her if this is above and beyond what the EPA requires? Doug asked if using this plan would cause us to duplicate what the EPA would do? Mayank Kumar said this is less than what the Ohio EPA requires. Doug Miller asked if the Ohio EPA guidelines would be more stringent? Mr. Kumar said yes. Doug Miller said if that is the case, why do this, when we could use the Ohio EPA suggestions and monitoring. Matt Evans said we could make this a Stage 1 or Stage 2 requirement. Doug Miller said if we can’t be more restrictive, why not just go with the Ohio EPA. Doug we could say that prior to the issuance of any zoning permits, the plan must comply with Ohio EPA standards. John Richardson said when we get a sketch plan that would be too soon in the process of the development but he could see how it could happen before Stage 3. Ms. Halligan said she sees a problem whereby the developer does not include the right-of-way areas in the calculations for handling certain amounts of water and those paved areas should be included. Doug Miller said maybe we should send this to Poggemeyer and get their opinion. Doug asked if we are done with Poggemeyer and Tim said we are. Matt Evans said he believes that we should require this at Stage 1 or Stage 2. Tim Hershner asked Diana Halligan if she would check with the Ohio EPA to see how the Mecklenberg plan compares with the EPA standards. Matt Evans said he wonders why Mecklenberg doesn’t use the EPA standards.
Robb Olsen, 8704 Charleston Woods Drive, distributed his zoning code update issues plan. Mr. Olsen said progress has been made but there are some key issues that have not been changed in the text. 1. There is a debate whether to keep or remove general welfare. Keep it.
2. Section 3 - Definitions of open space should mean land use for resource protection, recreation and amenity, for buffering and shall not mean R-O-W, parking lots, ponds, etc. Poggemeyer got it just the opposite.
3. Section 7 – Zoning code should allow fines of $500 per day. This amount is set by the Ohio Revised Code.
4. Section 12 A - Mr. Olsen said this is the A number 1 concern. Development standards should be changed to ½ acre minimum lot size. He said Hamilton Township did this, as did Warren County.
Doug Miller asked Mr. Olsen if he knew Mason’s lot size minimum. Mr. Olsen said he did not. Tim said most of theirs is similar to our 14,000 square feet minimum. Heritage Club is smaller. Mr. Olsen said all lots of record should be allowed to proceed but any new ones would have to be larger. Scott Evans said there would be no more developments such as Landen. Mr. Olsen said those would be a PUD but they would encourage more open space. Mr. Olsen said the larger lots would help with infrastructure. Mr. Olsen said this would make the township a more livable place. Section 12 B - There should be guidelines on building heights, set backs, buffer yards. This should all be incorporated before build out. Section 12 C - There should be a study on open space in order to maintain a level of open space.5. Page 4, Item 13 - Need to stress conformance between the Stage 1, the Stage 2, and the Stage 3 Mr.Olsen said they should make sure that the decision of Stage 1 and the intent of Stage 1 is carried through to Stages 2 & 3.6. Page 5, Item 14 – Mr. Olsen said that PUD regulations are stronger than R-SF regulations and we should allow small PUD’s. Mr. Olsen said he liked the Poggemeyer formula. 7. Page 6, Item 16 B – He likes the density bonus idea from Poggemeyer.8. Page 8 – Mr. Olsen had suggestions about minimum side yards. He likes Poggemeyer’s suggestions. On the minimum coverage by a structure, that should be 20%.9. Page 9, Item 22 – He stands by the need for specific classes of traffic study and likes suggestions from resident, Tonya Hines.10. Page 10, Item B – Said he strongly supports 10-50% open space in PUD.11. Page 11 – Mr. Olsen likes small areas included in open space.12. Item 26 – Mr. Olsen said he strongly supports pedestrian circulation and bike paths. He prefers they connect especially with parks, schools, and shopping.13. Page 12, Item 38, 39 – Mr. Olsen wants to prohibit chain link fences and 8 feet fences.14. Page 13, Item 40 A – On trees along streets, he supports that. Scott Evans said ODOT said they do not want trees due to possible accidents. Mr. Olsen said they could limit them on the busiest highways.15. Page 13, Item 43 – Mr. Olsen said he wants to limit signs and keep them under 10 feet. He doesn’t want 40 feet signs. Mayank Kumar said under the new zoning code, if the sign is 40 feet high, there shouldn’t be anything around it. It if would fall there would be nothing around it closer than 40 feet.16. Page 13, Item 44 – He said he wants stronger limitations on large box stores.17. Page 14, Item 45 – He likes noise limitations and lighting limitations but wants to prohibit truck idling.18. Page 16, Item 49 – Mr. Olsen doesn’t like “gated communities.”19. Page 16, Item 49 B – He wants larger lots, ½ acre only.20. Page 16, Item 50 B – In commercial development he wants the larger the building, the larger the setback. Scott Evans said the question is about the parking lot. The front parking lot is as hideous as some of the buildings.21. Page 16, Item 50 C – He said he wants consideration of requirements of other communities nearby and large commercial development’s affects on them.Mr. Olsen said we must address the density issues this time around. The zoning code will only be changed every so often.
John Lateulere, 2670 Chancelor Drive, Crestview Hills, KY, Ohio Valley Development Council, said he has some suggestions for the zoning code.
John Richardson asked for others to speak. Tim Hershner had a submission from today, which is a modification of stream bank protection. John Richardson asked who is author of this paper. Mr. Hershner said Lee Speidel.
Motion There was a motion by John Richardson to continue the Zoning Code Update to the June 14, 2004, Zoning Commission meeting. There was a 2nd by Scott Evans.
Roll Call Matt Evans-Yes, Don de Reynier-Yes, Scott Evans-Yes, John Richardson-Yes The motion was approved.
Motion There was a motion by John Richardson to continue the Zoning Map Update to the June 14, 2004, Zoning Commission meeting. There was a 2nd by Matt Evans.
Roll Call Scott Evans-Yes, John Richardson-Yes, Matt Evans-yes, Don de Reynier-Yes The motion was approved.
Motion There was a motion by John Richardson to adjourn. There was a 2nd by Scott Evans.
Roll Call Scott Evans-Yes, John Richardson-Yes, Matt Evans-yes, Don de Reynier-Yes The motion was
Approved.